Sunday, August 27, 2006

A Coach Sharing Call

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14 Comments:

Blogger Bill said...

I listened to this yesterday afternoon, and I've slept since then, but I would like to comment on it. I too have wondered whether Dominant Fi did more than just feel. I can't validate for you whether what she is expressing is her Dominant Fi, but I certainly resonate with what she is saying.

I was half laughing to myself, during some of the Q&A portion, "These people actually think they are going to be able pick up her techniques." I noticed there were also a couple of other INFP preference folks among her audience.

I notice in the call how they keep repeating "It's not cognitive..." -- and I disagree! It's highly cognitive

Let me explain. It's like it's kind of out there, and you trust it to work, and it does. It works on faith. You request what you want from "it" believing it will work, and it does. She said that it's like you're praying, except not religiously.

She mentions trapping the feelings of people that are in her space. It is hard to tell whether the feelings are yours or someone else's, because they feel just like your own feelings. Sometimes I will be feeling something that makes no sense in my inner context, and I'll be thinking, why am I feeling this? Often if I look around to see who is around me, I will discover whose feeling it is. Once a few years ago, I was feeling cut off, and disconnected, and I went a couple of days trying to figure out why on earth I would feel this way. But then it occured to me that this might be my wife's feeling instead. When I asked her, she never batted and eye. She said, "Yes, and the reason I am feeling this way is because of the long hours you are spending at work."

She mentioned putting a field around a person to make them feel safe. (Now that might be an INFP buzz word: safe) I've done this, but never to someone in my presence. I should try it I guess. I've done it with on line friends, some in Europe, and they tell me they feel it. I create the image and the feel of it in my imagination, and the other person feels it.

She mentioned perceptions having color. With me, its not like seeing an aura around a person. I experience the color internally in different ways. Like when one particular online friend was thinking of me, I would get an image in my mind of a transparent tube connecting us, and flowing through the tube was a sparkling butterscotch color.

She said, when she wants to know how to use something she just asks the spirit. I'm not certain what I am asking, but I discover how to use my abilites by asking (I've been calling it my intuition) for instructions, and it teaches with a combination imagery, feeling and inner knowing. It's as if I have an inner genie that has a mind of it's own, that waits at my beck and call. I think this might be what others call their muse.

Once I got separated from my wife in a shopping mall, and after about 45 minutes of frustration trying to relocate her, I said to my intuition, "I know you know where she is. Could you please share that information with me?" and almost instantly I could feel which direction she was from me, and I saw an image in my imagination of the inside of J C Penneys, and I saw an egg shapped image sitting in the linens, and bedspreads department.

She asked if other therapists worked on the phone, and how they functioned without visuals, or did they have a picture of their client. I get information about a person from their picture. It sometimes feels as if I get access to the inner person through their eyes in the picture. On rare occasions, the person who's picture I am looking at, will feel me scaning them, and will respond in kind. This happened once with a picture on a magazine cover. Every time I looked at that magazine cover, I felt the woman acknowledge me.

Experiences like this make me wonder if everyone is connected to some kind of cosmic interface, and all I have really is an inherited interface tool. Otherwise, how do I find a person who is a total stranger, from his picture? I experience something similar from reading people's words. It sticks out at me sometimes when I am reading someone's words in a novel, and I'm not feeling the person behind the words.

September 01, 2006  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

Was it a useful exercise? Did you gain any insights? Did you resonate easily to what she's describing?

October 11, 2006  
Blogger Bill said...

Was it a useful exercise? Did you gain any insights? Did you resonate easily to what she's describing?

Gee, I listened to it six weeks ago. :) No I resenated very easily with what she was saying. I keep wishing someone else would reply here.

October 13, 2006  
Anonymous Kelly Jo said...

Hi,

Here's my take... :) I personally seem to vacilate between INFJ and INFP. And yes, I will act in one combo easily and naturally with the functions for each for a time and then the other way for a while. That's why I have been reading your website and trying to figure it out for myself...

With that being said, I really only had to listen to a few minutes of the call after the cell phone stuff to know that this is definitely an Fi thing. BUT, it's also definitely an Fi thing WITH Ne.

When I am in INFP "mode," it flows this way. And it IS a cognitive thing, even if other INFPs don't "realize" it.

When I am in INFJ "mode," I can "see" and observe this process and it's a very high level cognitive process (energetic) that does happen with Fi and Ne. And it does come "naturally" to INFPs. I have to switch over to INFP to "experience" it... I am more objective about the what is happening when in INFJ mode. I can label it and define it and intuit it from that place, but not from the INFP place.

I have done spiritual healing work and I HAVE to be INFP with the functions working that way for the healing to "do it's thing." And I have done coaching work and I HAVE to be INFJ with the functions working that way for the coaching to actually "work."

I have INFP friends and colleagues. And this lady sounds just like each of them, even the soft, low voice. lol And me when I'm in that mode...But my husband says I'm "not acting myself." So, I must be INFJ and can just switch over energetically to INFP fairly quickly when I feel the need arises. Because I then become "coach" with what happened during the healing.

I hope this sheds some light for someone... :) because it actually did for me. :)

April 20, 2007  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

I confess it isn't sitting well with me to talk about using an "INFP mode" and an "INFJ mode" as if that means something. I simply can't associate it with anything that makes sense?

Perhaps if your preference is for INFJ, you simply choose to soften and lower your voice and turn down your directing style. Perhaps if your preference is for INFP, you simply choose to be more direct and be more planful. Or something.

Calling them "modes" seems to conflate them somehow, and make it seem like you can change your "pattern" whenever you feel like it. And yet the way you describe it, it sounds as though you are simply adjusting your interaction style, which (of course) we can all do. But there's a lot more to the pattern than how softly you speak or indirect you are being. :-/

April 20, 2007  
Anonymous Kelly Jo said...

Well, the only think I can think of it is that you can't "associate it with anything that makes sense" because you don't do it. :)

When I become "healer" me, it's not that my communication style changes and my voice gets lower or I soften my directing. It really is a complete shift in my being. I can feel the energetic shift just as the lady on this coaching call is talking about.

I don't know another way to describe it. The only other thing that comes to mind is reading, I believe on your site, about how each would act when having gone mad. And it sort of relates to the "multiple personality" thing of the INFP.

When I energetically "go within", everything shifts in me to the preferences and functions of the INFP. I do have to consciously allow the change over, so that is what clarified for me that my preference is INFJ.

And since I can become INFP, for even months at a time, that was where my confusion came from.

Thanks for your response. My mind has been having a hayday with the new light your websites have been shedding on my understanding of personality and type, for myself and others... :)

April 21, 2007  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

My insightful husband has explained to me that I object to your semantics. What I'm uncomfortable with is the idea that you can "become" another type.

As you no doubt know, Jung postulated that we all have preferences, but that doesn't preclude having the ability to "flex" our type as the situation warrants. So it's true you can "take on" the characteristics of INFP or INFJ, or "channel" their preferences, depending on your circumstances.

I bet you could even look like an ESTP when you're at a party! :-D

However, I would feel happier if you said, "I'm able to *flex* or *utilize* the characteristics of another type as required."

I've been pondering a way to communicate my objections in a way that you could understand, and here is the best I've come up with: one example I arrived at was to ask, "How might it be if I were to say whenever I coach someone, I just become Kelly Jo?"

What I make up is, it might sound flattering at first -- after all, imitation IS the sincerest form of flattery. BUT, I would bet money that if you ever saw me "become Coach Kelly Jo," you would be mortified. You would likely think, "I don't coach like that! I don't sound that way; I don't sit that way; I don't respond that way! In fact, this Vicky Jo chick is painfully superficial -- I hope she doesn't tell ANYBODY she's trying to be ME, EUE! I want no part of her!!"

Is it possible for you to imagine how disturbing that might be? And yet, over here, perhaps I think I'm doing a mighty fine job of pretending I'm Kelly Jo. I am patting myself on the back for my wondrous success.

The upshot is that INFPs can "do" INFP better than anybody, and INFJs can "do" INFJ better than anybody -- and to pretend you can just "become" one as easily as you change your shirt shortchanges the model and what it's all about. Certainly it doesn't *appreciate* differences if they can be adopted so easily.

In MBTI-speak, we call that "delusions of versatility." It's one of the challenges of being an MBTI facilitator -- encountering a client who thinks they can be anybody they want at any time.

However, as I said at the onset, this is not to say we can NEVER moderate our behavior and behave *somewhat* like another type, or step into and appreciate another type's perspective. HOWEVER, at the end of the day, I can never *BE* Kelly Jo, and Kelly Jo can never *BE* Vicky Jo.

Perhaps you have learned *adaptive* behaviors that cause you to RESEMBLE another type, but type goes MUCH deeper than superficial appearances. If you make the effort to identify yourself in the Beebe archetypes model, it would likely provide you with a greater sense of the depth of these innate patterns, and help you to recognize and honor them within yourself.

April 21, 2007  
Anonymous Kelly Jo said...

That's great!! :))

You had me at 'However, I would feel happier if you said, "I'm able to *flex* or *utilize* the characteristics of another type as required.'"

And the rest of what you said does make sense. :)

What confuses me personally is that it sure "feels" like I am INFP when I am doing spiritual healing work. But you are right, it is me, INFJ Kelly Jo, flexing for the need of the moment. It does go beyond "pretending" though. I see things and do things the way the woman on the call was talking about. That was why I recognized her Fi Ne preferences right away without having to listen for long.

My semantics were really me getting clear about it for myself as well. Thanks for helping with that and thank your husband too. :)

But then again, I was thinking that it could be I have INFP preferences and flex over to INFJ when I don't feel grounded enough or directing enough...because with INFP, there's a lot of free floating in the ethers and not much action in the physical. Which is very peaceful but I don't take any action to help my desires manifest in the physical. That's why I flex over to INFJ. It's still comfortable enough but a bit more action happens.

And then after a time, INFJ feels too directing and I need to be in the flow of the ethers for a few months again.

I think there is also a deeper need growing wanting to balance my personalilty more with all of my functions. Because I've come to a place with Ni and Fe of "been there, done that." Of course they are always there doing their thing without me thinking about it but I "need" more, more and different aspects of myself as time goes on to manifest my desires.

Yes, this whole type thing is absolutely fascinating to me. I will look into Beebe and Berens work more closely.

I just read your "individuation or evolution" page and I agree with being the best YOU you can be...but then, energetically, I do believe we can change. I have energetically altered my health and emotional well-being with channeled energy and so forth. Which is INFP at work within myself.

Well, I'm back to feeling confused... LOL :) I need to let this go for a while. INFJ wants closure and a decision on my preference to move forward and INFP says "fuck it, let go and just BE!" Thanks!

And to keep this all in perspective, I am 9 months pg with my 4th baby and my emotions are running wild right now overanalyzing this all right now. :) LOL

April 21, 2007  
Anonymous Kelly Jo said...

Wow! I just read (and devoured) your archetype page on infj.com and the Berens on Beebe page. Not only did your description of Beebe's archetypes ring so true and clarify MUCH for me, but Berens twist on it with the balance is just what I was "looking" for!

I use to fight all those dragons in my shadow self, but they only seemed to get stronger the more I "hated" them. So, I switched to loving them and integrating them and that's where the "feeling" of being a different type came from...how exciting to see that someone else has explained it but in relation to type language. :)

Thanks again. Since this is off topic now, I'll move on from posting on this page. :)

April 21, 2007  
Blogger Andrea said...

I'm an INTJ pretty much to the letter... you mentioned the word aura -- I felt a tingle ... I have always had a creepy way of understanding a person almost immediately.
I 'see' or rather feel their aura. There have been some so black that I have had goosebumps and have further learned of their terrible escapades and their incarceration...
Others are so good that I have had them as the truest of friends for years (not many mind you...)

I don't feel safe discussing this with most folks - they look at me like I'm a nut. It's been with me since I was a child though... I use it quietly and with much purpose and it has never failed me.

What of all this? Comments?

May 08, 2007  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

Andrea -

I've never met you, so I can't speak to the accuracy (or not) of your type code. If you simply got a result from a free online test, that's a highly questionable result. Even the official MBTI is accurate at best 70% of the time.

As to sensing an "aura," hmmm... I wonder what consciousness is being accessed there? Is it introverted Feeling or introverted iNtuiting? (Both are in the INTJ pattern, if that's reassuring at all. ;-D)

I'll ask my INTJ husband about this to get his thoughts. There seems to be a "woo-woo" quality to the experience that causes me to wonder what archetype is being invoked.

FUN STUFF!

May 08, 2007  
Anonymous Debbie said...

Wow, too bad that both the link and the phone number are dead! Is there any way that you can find this MP3 again? Thank you very much!

March 21, 2009  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

Thanks for drawing it to my attention, Debbie. I can't do anything about the dead phone number, but I'm re-uploading the mp3 now so it will be available again.

March 22, 2009  
Anonymous Janice said...

It's been 9 years since this blog post was written, but I just came across this blog post and the mp3 file. I think Katherine is INFP :) because she has this gentle nature and almost ethereal quality (bordering on fragile - INFP trademark), is soft-spoken, listens more than suggests and literally absorbs the feelings of whoever's speaking to her and responds with her subsconscious reaction to it - not literally through her words, but shift in tone etc.

And most likely because the way she talks reminds me of how Elliott Smith (INFP musician) talks. You could check out his interviews on YouTube. Cheers!

October 13, 2015  

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