Monday, August 21, 2006

Archetype

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11 Comments:

Blogger Vicky Jo said...

Nope.

I'm saying that when the INFP goes "within" and connects with the archetype (the inner world), they are feeling the archetype to grapple with understanding it. When the INFJ goes "within" and connects with the archetype (the inner world), they are seeing the archetype to grapple with understanding it.

Encounters with both archetypal forms are extremely difficult to articulate.

September 08, 2006  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

I don't know that it would be any clearer to another INFJ... As I understand it from Dr. Beebe, Ni is an imagistic process. I tend to think of it in terms of guided imagery. Beebe calls it "scenario thinking." So when an INFJ connects with archetypal "knowing," there are images associated with that. In contrast, apparently introverted Feeling is "feeling" its way around the archetype, more like a blind person climbing over a snowdrift in the dark, feeling their way carefully.

Zat help any?

October 05, 2006  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

Bill...

The "read people's minds" thing seems to me to be partly an Idealist ability, and partly about Ne, if I follow Beebe correctly.

What's interesting is that Ni is in the Witch/Senex archetype for the INFP pattern, so I have noticed resistance to their wanting to use it, and then when it is used, it seems to imagine a negative future, and rains on sunny dreams.

You write, I knew instantly what you meant by INFP feels the Archetype. I'd like to know more about that!

October 06, 2006  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

Bill -

I guess it's the "kind" of thing I'm looking for, but I'm sorta surprised by it. It doesn't appear to match what John Beebe got me to think it would.

My sense is that heroic introverted Feeling shows up when something is "wrong," and goes to work on "feeling" where the value(s) went awry. He claims Fi is a "worrying function," and that it is perpetually feeling around to see the "shape" of the value.

Does that spark anything for you?

October 10, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Maybe it is a worry function for some, but I look at worry as the opposite of faith, and faith is required for my intuitive abilities to function.

My sense is that heroic introverted Feeling shows up when something is "wrong," and goes to work on "feeling" where the value(s) went awry.

The desire of my heart is to find ways to enable others to accomplish the desire of their's.

October 10, 2006  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

I want to be careful not to misinterpret Beebe's comments, but it shows up for me that perhaps you've been conditioned to think worry is "bad"? Further, the term "worry" might be more like when you have a piece of playdough in your hand and you "worry" it, which is like massaging it repeatedly. So you're "worrying" it.

I know what you mean about worry being based in "fear," but I don't get that that is the kind of "worry" Beebe was talking about. :-/

You write, The desire of my heart is to find ways to enable others to accomplish the desire of their's.

...and I have to tell you that I have an allergic reaction to that. A lot of negative energy shows up for me, and this is the "yucky" thing I keep pointing at.

IF this is your life purpose statement, it feels to me like it is beneath you. Have you read anything about codependence? Because this is the kind of misguided belief many codependents hold that make their life miserable. I'm sure any Melody Beattie book would talk about this.

I also have a bad reaction somewhat because I recognize this in myself, and can testify to what a miserable failure such a goal can be.

I remember reading in codependent literature somewhere once about how a goal like this comes between you and your relationship with God. And since I know you have an active spiritual life, I wonder if this is something you might want to understand.

Regardless, I have to tell you that I simply cannot feel good about this statement. I'm downright allergic to it.

So where do we go from here?

October 10, 2006  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

I'm noticing this sounds a lot like an example from Byron Katie's most recent book: I Need Your Love - Is It True? She talks about how we bend our likes and dislikes to meet the approval of others.

A Make Believe Scenario with Golden Retrievers

Here's the setup: Imagine that you're not a big dog fan. Your friend's dogs have been playing in the sprinklers and they're all wet. He wants to bring the dogs with him to the park.

So you're all getting ready to pile into the car when his wife comes out and takes the front seat. That leaves you with the dogs in the back. He asks you, "Are you sure it's okay?"

The answer that comes up for you inside is, "No, it's not okay."

Okay so let's pause there. Notice that it's not an angry thought. It doesn't feel mean. It's just a clear thought. It's an honest "no." You don't want to ride in the back with the wet dogs. Simple.

What often happens next, though, is that we step out of integrity by arguing with that clear, kind answer because we think it's not an okay answer. So instead of voicing the honest "no," we say something like, "Oh sure, it's okay. I don't mind."

That's where the pain comes from.

We've just argued with the reality - which is that it's not really okay with me.

I'm just saying that because I want you to see me as a certain kind of person (flexible, accommodating, humble) and I want you to approve of me.

And because we've stepped out of our integrity, we'll continue to feel the stressful effects of it until we get back in alignment with ourselves.

If you have trouble staying in integrity with your honest no, here are some false beliefs you might like to investigate...

• I need them to like me.
• If I say no they'll be angry with me.
• Saying no is rude.
• Nice people always go along with everything.
• It's not that big of a deal.
• I have to do what they say.

Question the thoughts like the ones in the list above, or others that keep you from being able to say no and be in integrity.

October 11, 2006  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

But I think this is where that yucky feeling comes from. Are you willing to look there? I get a yucky sensation around this topic, and I think it's the source of something that isn't serving you.

October 11, 2006  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

Bill -

I appreciate where you're coming from. After all, you've been under the magnifying glass a lot recently.

What I don't know is whether that energy is you taking care of yourself, or whether that's "resistance" showing up saying, "I don't want to look there, because then I might have to change the way I do business."

Only you know which one it is. Only you know what serves you best overall.

Take care of yourself.

October 12, 2006  
Blogger Vicky Jo said...

What I know is that we have lots of voices within us. So as you feel into that voice, does it have your best interests at heart? Or is it a voice from your comfort zone griping about any change in the status quo?

October 13, 2006  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i love how you say that you have to sit with this wisdom for a long time before it reveals itself. that is so infj ;)

March 15, 2011  

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