Gandhi
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posted by Vicky Jo at 3:02 AM
Thursday, June 15, 2006
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- Name: Vicky Jo
- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States
I coach people to identify and develop their natural personality strengths in order to maximize their potential.
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Previous Posts
- A Special INFP
- Role Modeling
- J/P Discussion
- Orientation
- The Stonehenge Test
- Questioning & Wondering
- Don't Worry Be Happy
- Tertiary Talk
- Psychic?
- Two Kinds of Bosses and Jerks
6 Comments:
If you really have studied Gandhi, and read professors who have used their whole life studying Gandhi, then what I have learned is that I don`t think I have ever seen a more sublime person in taking judgements. And he was a very good leader and decision maker for his group. This is an impossible P to me...?
And..... Judging is the favorite function of an INFP. So how is it "impossible"? Please say more.
By the way, Jungian John Beebe has stated that he has found INFPs to be among the most "judgmental" of all the clients he has worked with in his practice -- which mirrors what I've noticed myself, particularly with INFPs I've met online and in the comments I get here.
Now, I confess I don't know what you mean by, "I don't think I have ever seen a more sublime person in taking judgements." Could you clarify that phrase? Thanks!
Hi, and thanks for answer!
Sorry for my bad english, but its not my mother tounge.:) And I havent read so much about your theories. But the psychologists I know, my sister who is a psychologist, and her professional colleges at work and in the psychological forum/world. Say that when a person is someone who needs to have things done, NOW, that with many other traits, then its by no doubt a J.
And the people who are well respected professors in psychology, philosphy and many more fields, and who have studied Gandhi for their entire life. They have a docotral degree at well rewoned universities. How can the two of you, by the way with no degree in psychology, argue against these people about GAndhi. What research has John Beebe done about Gandhi?
I dont mean to sound harch, but I am just so excited about this, and I dont say that I have a one percent knowledge about this as you two do. But this is not something I have made up.
Thanks for the answer!:)
Best,
Øystein
Oystein-
here's my problem: I find myself constantly defending against all the CR*P that's out there on the internet about type -- all the misunderstandings, misinterpretations, stereotypes, bias, etc.
And frankly -- the job is IMPOSSIBLE. So you're right -- you haven't read much about "my theories," and that presents a problem in the conversation.
You write here, "[others] say that when a person is someone who needs to have things done, NOW, that with many other traits, then its by no doubt a J." And I say NO. That's not accurate. This speaks to the conflation commonly (!) done with the J/P scale and it's just WRONG. (It's wrong!) What the J/P means is whether a person *prefers* to use their judging or their perceiving preference in the outer world. For a "J," this means they prefer to have things DECIDED. (It does not mean they like to *decide* -- and if they're an introvert, chances are they don't!) A person who prefers "P" likes to keep their options open and not feel hemmed in by a decision.
Now.... to take that to the level of INFJ or INFP, it means that an INFP probably knows in a heartbeat whether something is morally right or wrong -- much faster than ME. And if they've encountered that issue before, they can move on it pretty quickly. They don't have to dwell on the issue for a long time before they can "decide" whether something is "good" or "bad" or not. They're already there, while I'm still scratching my head in the starting blocks.
As far as John Beebe researching Gandhi goes, I don't know that he has. My page is somewhat predicated on what another INFP type expert, Steve Myers, has suggested about Gandhi from his own observations. Both of these gentlemen are well-versed in the 8-function model of type.
Until you know something about the 8-function model of type (and perhaps until your sister and all her psychologist friends do), I'm afraid to say we can't have much of a conversation. :-(
We will be talking about apples and oranges.
Clearly, from your remarks, you are coming from a trait-based, stereotype method of using the type model -- a perspective that places far too much weight on the J/P scale.
In contrast (and I will probably delete this at some point and incorporate it into the website at large, so grab it now), following is how John Beebe talks about type. (Feel free to print this out and share it with your sister et al.)
"Jung's theory, unfortunately, is often misunderstood to be only a way of typing people, whether as extraverts and introverts, or as feeling, thinking, sensation, or intuitive types, and thus of limited value in understanding intrapsychic dynamics, such as the dialogues between complexes representing opposite points of view within the psyche. It was nevertheless Jung's intention in offering his theory of types of psychological consciousness to introduce 'some kind of order among the chaotic multiplicity of points of view," to offer it as a 'critical psychology' to 'sort out and organize the welter of empirical material' of 'psychic processes that can be shown to be typical' (Jung, 1921/1971, pp.xiv-xv). In this spirit of identifying typical processes rather than typical people, I use type theory to differentiate the dialogic positions of the complexes that can be observed within the course of a therapeutic analysis of a single individual."
WHEW!
Once you can understand that quote, you will be very well equipped to discuss whether or not Gandhi's preferences are for "J" or "P." ;-D
Now..... go read more.
Thanks for the information, I will go and read and learn. This is a great way to learn, this discussion thing.:)
Best regards
Oystein
"To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest."
And is the profound painfulness of being an INFP.
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