Another Buzz Word
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posted by Vicky Jo at 3:08 AM
Thursday, June 15, 2006
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- Name: Vicky Jo
- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States
I coach people to identify and develop their natural personality strengths in order to maximize their potential.
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16 Comments:
Hi Vicky Jo,
Just wanted to share my theory on why it may be difficult to come up with one buzz word for the INFP.
I'm an INFP, and I wanted to share a couple more buzz words that resonate with me. "Hypocracy" is one and "integrity" is another. I think the buzz words for INFPs may vary based on what their specific values are. We know that INFPs have stong value systems, but we also know that they vary from person to person, especially since the strongest function is Fi.
As I mentioned, one of my buzz words is "hypocracy." I personally get upset if I see people or organizations behaving inconsistently. For example, I stopped shopping at Wal-Mart because I feel the behavior by the individuals at that particular corporation are hypocritical. For example, they have been known to set up a new store and reduce their prices enough to drive out the other small, Mom and Pop businesses in the area. What really gets me, though, is that they post their code of ethics on all the walls of their negotiating rooms. That behavior to me is hypocritical and lacks integrity. I can't reconcile posting a code of ethics when their behavior to their competition and vendors is so ruthless.
The point of my blog is not to blast Wal-Mart; I'm only using it as an exapmle to illustrate my belief that it may not be possible to come up with one specific buzz word for the INFP personality since the feeling function is primarily introverted.
Hm, integrity and hypocrisy. Those seem like pretty good candidates, and match what I know from the cognitive process model. Let me think on that. Partly I think INFJs might resonate to those terms too, because these elements both show up in the Catalyst (was Idealist) temperament pattern.
I'm also getting around to updating the buzz word page anyway, because John Beebe claims appropriate is a term BOTH introverted and extraverted Feeling would resonate to. It surprised me! But I need to put a page together expressing his thoughts and sharing them with you.
Concerning "evil"... It is a word of great importance, and shouldn't be used lightly. Both Good and Evil exists (thought to be fair, evil is the absence of good), but to call a person "evil" would be unthinkable since it implies there is no good in the person. A person can be bad, but surely not evil. He might choose evil over good, he might do evil things be he IS not evil.
This being said, I reject the idea that we should "cleanse" our vocabulary. That is wrong on so many levels. If we simlify our language, we lose our ability to call things by it's proper name.
There is evil in the world, and if we reject the word evil, we reject our ability to describe this thing (evil) and thus lose our understanding of it, and perhaps even our defence against it?
This danger is also present when we use the world evil to lightly, i.e. when we mean "bad".
The world evil does draw my attention, though, and perhaps that is all you asked.
/Hanna (INFP)
Hi. I'm an INFP -- after years of wandering through the INFJ and INTJ wilderness :D -- and wanted to contribute to this "evil" thing.
I see a few INFPs here explaining why the word resonates with them, but it doesn't seem authentic to me -- as if there is a deliberate, conscious attempt to make a social point by using the word "evil." Frankly, this just doesn't seem INFP to me at all. We don't editorialize this...clearly. We aren't this rational. This is why many of our explainations don't impress very logical types, and why we get shoved off of discussions dominated by INTPs (which INFPs very often mistype themselves as!).
What we DO tend to do, however -- and we've done for years and years -- is find ways to elegantly explain why we do arrive at some conclusions. The dirty little secret here is that it's reverse-engineering. We don't look at evidence, ideas, "values" or other things and arrive at an end result. We go directly to that end result, without passing GO or collecting $200, and then we use very good language skills (preferably in writing, where we own the floor) to explain "why we got there."
I'm not saying that INFPs (or that I, personally) are disingenous; I think that we simply do our best to explain things to others, and this is "how" we think we're supposed to do it. If we really told other people how we figure things out, they would stare at us in horror -- like how people stared at Homer Simpsons when he averted a nuclear meltdown by playing "eenie meenie miny mo" on the control panel. In a very strange way, many big INFP opinions -- including those that lead to life choices! -- are made this way. We don't "catch hold of a train and see where it goes", as an introverted intuitive does. We find ourself at a desination -- SOME destination -- and then we work backwards to try and figure out how the hell we got there.
So how does this relate to "evil"? I think that many INFPs use this term because, among other things, it de-personalizes certain acts. It implies that a person him/herself isn't "bad", or a thing isn't "bad", but that something prior to the person -- something we call 'evil' -- is at work in the person. Whether this serves to clarify our world, make it less realistic, or simply give us the very structure in which to stay (reasonably) sane is something I can't speak to. But I think the term evil is VERY appealing to INFPs, because it provides a framework within which to access reality. For an INFP, there is evil. For an INFP, evil "infects" people and compels them to do evil things.
Get rid of the evil, make the world a better place. Is this true? I don't know. But find an INFP who doesn't, somewhere, deeply believe this, and you'll probably find an INFP in desperate need of help. The times in my life where I've lost the ability to plug into this framework have been the worst. The abyss is deep.
Wow.
Just..... wow.
Eventually I may delete this entry and create a page for it -- or work it into the page on "evil" I already have.
I have some new thoughts on the topic of "evil" myself that I'm evolving, mostly related to Dr. John Beebe's employment of the term, and how it seems to manifest in coaching via shadow work. So watch this space!
Hmmmm...I can relate to the description of how we arrive at conclusions first and then traces (or make up?) the arguments for getting there.
The same persons ideas about evil is also the one I can relate to best - however, I certainly do not believe in evil! I can't relate to INFP's being concerned with good or evil. (It is the only thing I remember from the descriptions as not fitting) I am deeply concerned with good (kind of), but evil is a misleading word - a box that you can ascribe people or actions to if you are unwilling to understand the deeper dynamics.
To me, evil does not exist as such. There are people who hurt others, but there are also reasons for that, none of them being the mysterious "evil". Recently, I have been listening to a cd which has put Kahlil Gibrans writings into a kind of songs mixed with reciting. There is one song going:
"Of the good in you, I can speak, but not of the evil" and later on: "when you are one with yourself you are good. Yet, when you are not one with yourself you are not evil" - I agree with that. To me, that means that there are ways to be as good as possible, but when we are not, we are not evil but rather just out of tune (and probably dissatisfied or unhappy to a smaller or greater extent).
Some people treat others badly or do hurtful or destructing things to people or the world, but that is not a proof of evil but things like being out of tune or not understanding...
So the strive is to be good - or rather in tune with myself and the world.
But - alas - my native language is not English, so this might in part be the reason for a different perception of the word.
I can relate to integrity and hypocracy -but as you mention, Vicky, they might be for all Catalysts.
As for appropriate - your description made me think. I do not care much about it in the sense that I think it is important. Actually, I remember a childhood friend always saying "you just don't do that!" as if social norms made it a perfect reason for not doing something. Nonononono! ;-)That means you don't have the freedom to do what makes sense to you (only talking about things that would not hurt others, of course).
However, at times I might be afraid of what others thinks about me due to unfortunate upbringing resulting in low (though increasing) self esteem. So I can be preoccupied with what people are expecting of me. That always leads to being confused about what is appropriate - because it makes no sense to me. I think that focus is different from the INFJs natural occupation with appropriate behaviour, which seems to be out of concern for other peoples feelings (right?).
In general it seems to me that my complexes has caused me to behave more as INFJ - and think I should be one - and perhaps this is part of the reason for some INFPs being confused about it? Of course, I am NOT saying that INFJ functioning is really INFP with complexes! But it occurs to me that many Ps might react to bad experiences by turning towards J-related functioning. And of course, other types would turn to other ways of functioning that is not their most natural preferences...
Perhaps that could be why John Beebe has noticed INFPs being concerned with "appropriate"?
If there are language mistakes making it difficult to understand, you are welcome to change them as you see fit - I can always post back if I don't think the changes are correct. :-)
I see from another blog comment you made that the INFP "grid" seems to have lit up for you. Fabulous!
I can't remember what I said where anymore, but Beebe says that "appropriate" is a term of concern to ALL types who have a preference for Feeling. So I must get that updated eventually. (sigh!)
I hear you about "evil," and perhaps you are right.... nonetheless, I am wanting to go along with Jung and Beebe about how we all have the capacity for evil within us -- we all have darkness -- and that knowing our own darkness is the best way of coping with the darkness with others.
Just recently I read some book about a good Quaker man (I think it was?) whose children ended up in prison. The notion seemed to be that these kids carried the father's "shadow" for him. There are also tales of those who are "sheep" and get eaten by "wolves." So it seems that we are none of us capable of being "saints" without accepting the side of ourselves that sins.
Amazing food for thought.
(I got a lot out of "Jung on Evil," edited by Murray Stein, I believe.)
Hi there.
It sounds like an interesting book. Maybe I'll read it one day.
I just want to stress that I don't believe that anybody is without the capacity to hurt others and do really bad things. I, too, think that we all possess darkness (e.g. undiscoverede sides) - I just don't like the way the term evil makes that darkness sound like it is almost an object that one can "have" or "not have".
What I really don't like is when the term is used to point someone out as an evil person. I do not believe so (even though I may be very angry at certain leaders around the world). A person can do evil actions but nobody IS evil.
However, I do not want us to eliminate the word. It is and will always be a fact that some people tend to see things that way. Those I also have to try to understand and accept as human beings who might or might not be contributing to the world in their own ways (perhaps they are really helpful towards other people or repairing our bikes when we still haven't got the grip on it :D)
Sounds dreamy? Perhaps. ;-) To me, it is realism!
I daresay that -- as with most things -- the best answer is somewhere in between.
It is possible to declare someone is "evil" when they are merely *different* from us -- much as it used to be with people who were left-handed. On the other hand, it's important not to become complacent and think another Hitler could never happen. There's some road right down the middle that must be found -- and we each of us must find it individually. (That was Jung's ultimate message.)
I believe I have just written nearly the same thing as you, but using my own words, so I daresay we are in violent agreement! ;-D
Postscript:
"In the last resort, there is no good that cannot produce evil or evil that cannot produce good."
-Jung
Yes!
I think we are "in violent agreement". Thanks for making it more clear. And I agree with Jung as you cite him, too.
I am paying attention to which words might be buzz words for me. I will post them here, when I find some that I think might be general.
I was thinking about "wholeness" and "journey" - but I think they might be too "airy".
Your site here is really a great source for clarification as well as food for thoughts. It has given me a lot of insight into the dynamics of those four small letters and thereby a much deeper idea of what MBTI is and can be used for. :-D I am also impressed at how energetically you work on it/work on answering posts. That is great for us INFPs and INFJs :-D
Hm...as a probable INFP, I'd like to comment on this. I wouldn't say I use the word "evil" much; however, I have a fairly strong sense of "bad", as in "bad person". For example, if someone has ticked me off enough, I eventually come to regard that person as "bad" overall, even to the point where I may overlook the good within them. Conversely, I tend to overlook the bad in "good" people, or at least minimize it. Hope this helped.
Evil is definetly a word that draws in my attention. Almost as if a moth drawn to a flame. I get this undeniable senation to simply turn towards that source and focus in on it.
Now there are a few reasons of course. One of them being the fact that I have a tendency to be drawn towards things other ignores. At times, people misjudge things and call them dark, or in more judgemental if not crude terms, evil. In fact, I've been called satanic simply because I like to wear the color black but that is an entirely different story.
You see, I feel drawn towards things others ignore, especially when in essence they are truly beautiful, and have nothing to do with evil. Evil, in many cases, is simply a result of people being narrow minded.
However, let's get to the actual and true concept of evil: Murder, rape, tyranny, just to name a few.
Now, what truly peeks my interest about this form of evil is the 'why'. I'm genuinly curious to know what happened, why it happened, and what caused it to happen.
For an easy example let's take one individual who commited murder. Let's say the victim was his mother. Most people (if not all) would say this is an excrutiangly evil act. Well yes, it is. Most peope however do not seem to care why it was done. You see, in my eyes, I would want to know what pushed this individual to the brink that caused him to murder, especially his own mother. I could never simply be satisfied with the answer "He had a troubled past", or "He simply lost his mind", or to be blunt, "He was just a bad person".
Now in a larger case, let's take the example of tyranny. I could never simpy accept the fact that this is the way that that society is. Even in todays world in goverments that are not tyrannical (though some would argue otherwise), people complain and consistently say how terrible and awful the world is. Yet they, nor anyone else who says the same thing does anyting about it. In a tyrannical soceity this is nearly the same. What draws me to this concept of evil is again the underlying questions of why, how, and who. I want to know how things were the way they were, how they became that way, who enforced such decrees and why nothing has been done to combat it when to be honest, wouldn't death be prefered over living a life not worth living?
Now, on a more personal level of evil, as you stated you wondered if it drew our attention because of a violation of our core values, the only time this type of evil truly and utterly takes my attention, is when it is another enforcing their values upon me. I do not mean telling me about them, or disagreeing with my own. I mean quite bluntly forcing me to abandon who I am to become someone I am not. Freedom is something that I value greatly, and in truth, something that I simply cannot live without. Trust me on that.
Now, evil in any form, I tend to forgive, especially when there were reasons behind it. And I don't mean reasons like "Well I did't like you", or "I didn't like this person", I mean real emotional reasons that draw out my sympathy. Or if I can truly tell that person regrets what they have done, I will forgive them. I will never forget it, but I will never hold it against them.
Thundersun,
Thank you for your thoughtful, considered posts.
I appreciate your validation of the INFP interest in the term "evil." They do seem to have a little bit of schadenfreude in them. In the typology community, they often report having a copy of "In the Grip" on their nightside table in preparation for those late-night calls.
Since introverted Feeling is the function that weighs good and bad (valuing), naturally it must find some "bad" to explore and sift through; otherwise it would have nothing to do! John Beebe has said that Fi is like the 7 blind men and the elephant, if you know that tale -- except that ALL of the blind men represent Fi trying to feel its way around the elephant and try to grasp and understanding of the value or the violation or whatever it is. For instance, he tells the story of an INFP who might go through a divorce, think about it for YEARS, and then suddenly reach some conclusions and write an amazing book on divorce that has fantastic insights and helps others. (I wonder whether author David Richo falls in that category? He is a marvelous INFP author. And of course there's Robert Johnson.)
Evil is a terrific topic that is wrapped up in what Jung referred to as the "shadow." We all have one, and we all tend to consider it "evil." A quote I like is this one: "The shadow usually contains values that are needed by consciousness, but that exist in a form that makes it difficult to integrate them into one's life." We all encounter life as a moral struggle, and psychological type gives us the algorithm that shows where our moral struggles are likely to occur.
There is also the idea that some people are born evil. (This is often said of Hitler and serial killers.) Since evil interests you, let me point you toward James Hillman's work in "The Soul's Code." It's quite fascinating. Hillman would maintain that with some people, they are naturally beyond the pale with respect to evil, and the causalistic idea that they are only evil because they had a bad childhood, or they actually had a good intention is quite thoroughly debunked.
Last, I notice how you have certain conditions in place for how someone might be forgiven a transgression. It seems to be grounded in extraverted Thinking, which would reflect the "spine" of an INFP.
So let me challenge you: Is it naive to believe that only a cogent argument should permit someone getting off the hook? I ask this because I can hardly marshal a logical argument to save my life. Had I lived a century or two ago, I'm convinced I would have burned at the stake. :-O
Namaste,
-Vicky Jo :-)
I find the analogy, or perhaps metaphor of the 7 blind men and the elephan very intriguing, as well true. Relating that concept to my own experiences each of the 7 men would represent something entirely different. They would represent different values, perhaps some I hold dear and others that I am simply confused by. These different aspects of myself would search (ponder) the situation (or elephant) in this case. I could quite easily sit in contemplation for hours on end on the same subject. I would research other opinions (more than likely through the internet if it is any consolation), possibly integrate them into my own, write out my thoughts on the matter, or just day dream. One may really be surprised how much day dreaming can bring enlightenment. While I am on this topic, I will also bring in the topic you mentioned in one of your other pages about Slaying Dragons and how INFPs have a tendency to consume them instead. I would agree with this statement as well. I take that in which makes me stronger. Whether it be internal strife, external strife, internal strife caused by external strife, or external strife caused by internal strife. No matter what the situation may be, I tend to grow from it, almost as if each 'dragon' is a stage along a journey. At times you may have to go back to recall something you had previously gone through. It's basically just a never ending journey. And in my own opinion, the destination doesn't quite matter.
Anyways, back to the concept of evil. This concept of a shadow intrigues me. Without really any prior knowledge in explanations to this, I would simly view it as a part of oneself that is the opposite of who you are. Or perhaps something one represses? It's a part of you, but not something that is readily visible to the outside world, perhaps not even to oneself. I once had a very interesting dream about a shadow creature of sorts, if you're interested I would be more than happy to relate it.
I am however, aware with the conept as well as argument that some people are born evil. Wouldn't that also be saying that people are good? Furthermore, that would (somewhat) imply that if one isn't good than they are evil, and vice versa. I don't believe this is the case, there are many shades of grey in this world and throughout the universe. Nothing is as simple as black and white.
One interestin way I like to view it is that light can be hidden behind a layer of darkness, giving it that 'evil' appearance when truly, beneath the surface, it's just innocence that's been hurt. The same can be said of darkness, it can hide behind a mask of light. It's intentions may appear good, for the benefit of all, but really, it's the opposite. It's almost paradixocial, to a an extent. And to a further extent, there really isn't an answer. It kind of just goes in circles, or doesn't have a precise answer other than there are many.
As to that challenge you mentioned, I shall attempt to answer it. I do not believe a cognet argument is entirely sufficient. It's truly difficult to explain. I believe everyone goes through phases throughout their life, a journey to complete themselves. Some parts of that journey many would wish to forget. Whether they be more personal, or whether they have a direct affect on another, or many others.
I suppose, that the real answer to ths question lies with the concept of justice, mercy, and of course the mindset of the society of that time. In regard to the fact that you are convinced you would have burned to the stake two or so centuries ago, to be honest, I would probably be with you.
Moving on though, I believe anyone can change. No one is ever truly set in stone. This is a phrase I find myself saying often, "The past makes you who you are, the present shows who you have become."
So... the irony is that I'm doing a webinar on Monday on the topic of the Shadow, so I have to get off the internet and take care of business. I like that you're thinking about this, and I'll just let your comment speak for itself, with the addition of one Joseph Campbell quote:
"The ultimate dragon is within you."
Enjoy!
-Vicky Jo :-)
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