Slaying Dragons
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posted by Vicky Jo at 3:22 AM
Thursday, June 15, 2006
About Me
- Name: Vicky Jo
- Location: Los Angeles, California, United States
I coach people to identify and develop their natural personality strengths in order to maximize their potential.
Please contact me to arrange a free strategy session -- I would be delighted to speak with you.
Previous Posts
- Perfect Example of Fi
- Being and Doing
- How the Processes Show Up
- Vote Again
- Type Too Simple
- Gems
- Similarities and Differences
- Tertiary Redux
- Psychic Redux
- Debate
20 Comments:
For many years I had repetitive theme dreams in which some kind of bogeyman or monster (or several) were after me, trying to kill me, and where I was haplessly outnumbered, outmanned/over-powered, and essentially, doomed to what seemed would eventually be a grisly death.
Yes, sounds horrible- but, in each dream, I'd fight tooth and nail (quite valiantly) until the very end- or just prior to it, really -when the monster/s were just about to get me, lay hands on me, & do me my final harm.
Right then, I'd always wake up.
(Too disturbing for my psyche to actually let me experience them touching/harming me, I've supposed.)
One year I had my final bogeyman dream.
Same old story; Freddie Kruger-like villian; I'm shooting and hacking and slashing away at my monster, and he's not staying down for the count.
He's getting closer, and weirdly, in this dream, I can feel and experience my panic greater than in any dream before.
I am also starting to get disturbed at the ever-increasing and escalating level of violence I'm having to employ, just to try to put this monster down, to stop him.
Even though he is what he is, it's disturbing even me.
This awareness stays with me during the dream, and as my panic and self-discomfort and disgust levels rise, I somehow get the awareness that usually I am waking up by now.
Not so, this time.
I just realized that I wasn't going to be able to stop him...and that another solution must be found, as not only was this one not working, but my employing it was becoming increasingly, overbearingly disturbing for me. This wasn't _me_. I was becoming not-myself, in order to destroy this enemy.
Then, the solution and answer just came to me: The thing I could not control or fight, about him, was my Fear.
I was really fighting my Fear; and _I_ was in charge of that, I realized.
It was really horrible to me to turn the tides *in*wardly and to stand there, face him, and allow him to approach me, come close to me- even, if so, for him to touch me. As far as my Fear would take me, that was as far as I had to go.
And you know, he stopped. Couldn't get any further, almost the instant that I was resolute that I would not fear him...even up to the point of possible death.
I feel this as analogous to your story.
Perhaps I wasn't consuming my dragon, but I feel it's the same thing: allowing the dragon, or the gremlin, to get inside the gates. Giving it full access; throwing the door open and wide; like a surprise move, and just trying the opposite, for once: letting it in.
Incorporation, and a true 'meeting' of the enemy, instead of battle.
I was never successfully finishing them the other way (might have fought, and repeated these dreams, forever)...so....
(And, this reminds me of Star Trek: The Next Generation's arch villian, the Borg:
'Resistance is futile; you _will_ be assimilated'! LOL :) )
Wow, thanks for sharing that. My coach self totally gets it. Now I need to find the words to explain why. I wonder whether it has something to do with whether our judging process is inner world or outer world. For me, battling the "dragon" of a Do List (and that's a typical dragon I might battle), is about doing and how I show up in the world. That's not a dragon you want to eat. But I totally get the idea of assimilating. The coaching I've been emphasizing lately has been around integrating "aspects" of personality that are at odds with our ego. Even the self-sabotaging side of us seems to have a positive intent of some kind. So... for instance... with the dream you describe, what was that fear protecting you from I wonder...? That might have been a fun coaching conversation to explore. ;-D
Hrm... your situation sounds pretty darn close to mine. I call mine the shadow.. and when I die, I usually have a sensation I'm going to die and I automatically switch to 3rd person to see that, or demon... or what have you. The last shadow attack I had was acouple years ago was when I dreamt I'm living in the house I'm in now. I Always hated going into the basement, the monsters of my dreams always resides down there. *Ironically in real life I live in the basement* Well, I always go down to the basement anyways to confront my fears. The fear is always extremely overwhelming, I could instinctly run away at any moment so it tooks alot of effort to move one foot to another. I finally got to the last room, that was the hardest to do because it was pitch black. Going into the Demon's Den was sort of the effect. When I got in, the ground was dirt. The walls were cracked.. and the ceiling suddenly dropped down on me. And I saw coming out of the walls and ceiling were hundreds of black insects. They were closing in on me when I felt the sensation of death washing over me. I gathered my strength and blew the entire colony away as the shadow tried to enveloped me. I got up to my feet and felt the Shadow's presence from beyond the walls, ready to fight it again only if it attacks me. I never win fighting tho, I won by killing a demon Once in my life. But that was of a special nature, thus a different story. I've long speculated on what my shadow could really be, but since I never seen whats in it I have no clue. I've known full well that its part of me, however I was reading online about achetypes and I was reading the demon ones that supposedly guards the gate to knowledge. I've wondered, if thats what we're really fighting.. maybe the reason we never win is because it'll only impart us it's knowledge once we've grown and matured to the part that the knowledge we'll gain won't drastically affect our conscious ego in any detrimental way. As in the master only imparts knowledge when the apprentice is ready to accept it responsibly? or see it for what it is? I'm sure you guys have already thought of this.. I'll revise this when I come to understand more...
You didn't state your type pattern, Kevin, but the 8th process in the personality is associated with the archetype of the "demon."
I'm gearing up to write more about Beebe's model of the personality and how he links it to archetypes. In the meantime, there's an article by John on my coaching website that explains his model in some depth.
According to John, we ALL have the potential for evil within us, and it tends to emanate from the 8th process, which is at the deepest level of our consciousness.
Because it is SO ego-dystonic (not us!), it is nearly impossible to figure out how it operates within us. The only way to know is to notice what we criticize and dislike in others. We tend to know our Shadow by projecting it.
Since I first learned John's model several years ago, I've been trying to wrap my head around this concept, and have only recently been getting glimmerings of how much Si (my demonic process) triggers me.
ON THE OTHER HAND, if your pattern happens to be the INFP pattern, I've noticed -- and I think I may mention it on this site -- this pattern often manifests a fascination with good and evil. That would be consistent with John's description of Fi that I share on a later page on my website. It has to do with feeling out the Value archetype, trying to get one's hands around good and evil as a task for the heroic process.
Without actually talking it through in person, I don't know if I'd want to guess whether the heroic or demonic process is showing up via your dream, Kevin. First I'd want to know how this comment lands for you...
I don't know whether it's appropriate or not, but I kept thinking about this joke, I hope you enjoy it:
++++++++++++
Bubba went to a psychiatrist. When he got there, he said, "I've got problems. Every time I go to bed, I think there's somebody under it. I'm scared. I think I'm going crazy."
"Just put yourself in my hands for one year," said the shrink. "Come talk to me three times a week and we should be able to get rid of those fears."
"How much do you charge?"
"Eighty dollars per visit," replied the doctor.
"I'll sleep on it," said Bubba.
Six months later, the doctor met Bubba on the street. "Why didn't you ever come to see about those fears you were having"? asked the psychiatrist.
"Well eighty bucks a visit three times a week for a year is an awful lot of money! A life coach cured me after one session. I was so happy to have saved all that money, I went and bought me a new pickup!"
"Is that so?! And how, may I ask, did a life coach cure you?"
"He told me to cut the legs off the bed! Ain't nobody under there now!"
LOL, well thats one way to fix it. If only temporary. Fascination with good and evil... that would seem consistent. I think about it too much sometimes and my family always seem to wonder why I Always choose the good side in any games, probably because its important to me beyond the game. Not that I can ever explain it to them that would make sense lol. Since its possible to dream the heroic, judging from what you said. The vast majority of my dreams would consist of that, altho in the dream I mentioned, both of that I'm sure were involved... but to what degree the 8th was? I don't know right now. I know of a particular person I seem to dislike rather frequently, I need to pay more attention to her... Well either way, I'll definately be thinking about what you've said lol. But I'm no expert or professional. I had an answer for the reason I didn't post my type, but I've forgotten it seems as I thought of the rest of your questions. Ah well.
Kevin your post really resonated with me (the poster of the first dream) as well.
And Vicky Jo, good question.
Your comments and Kevin's post made me realize that what the fear is protecting me from is probably indeed my own Shadow; and for me, that's the "Dark side."
Really sinking my teeth into the fear tells me that it was about the very thing I said I was feeling worried about in the dream- basically, becoming the Shadow to defeat the Shadow.
And becoming the Shadow, for me, looks like: Giving way to blind hatred and unrestrained emotionalism, where the expression of it could cause harm to others; pure self-interested entitlement, no sense of shame and the complete liberation that letting loose, emotionally and passionately, appears to be like, to me.
In truth, I fear it, and am in deep envy of people who exhibit that with apparently no self-consciousness (at least in the moment), and no guilt.
Sure, later they feel guilt...but they don't apparently have that second-by-second moral consciousness overhanging them at every second of their lives; there are just those moments where their passion breaks out (even if it is a passion of fear, retribution, or hatred), and they are completely free to express it.
If I am completely honest I almost long for it, and a deep part of me finds the yearning & thought exhilarating.
And I am terrified of that. It is everything that I feel I can never become, and always have a responsibility to Not Do, and have to continuously defeat, when it arises in me.
But still- it is the hero's temptation: It is not fair. Being tempted and never remitting does exhaust.
Every once in a while we are all tempted to give up the fight. Even the Joans of Arc.
Maybe my dream finished like that by my unconscious saying to me, "Maybe the fear of becoming It is more dangerous than awareness and ownership of the Thing itself."
I think this is a lesson for my growth; definitely.
Thanks, both of you!
What your new insights leave me wondering is whether it's time to step into that Shadow and see what's been stuffed down in there. It seems like you have been living in the Heroic aspects of introverted Feeling. And Dr. Beebe claims that most true individuation is about "getting past the Hero."
So maybe it's time to lay down the Hero and walk into the Shadow to find the gold that's hidden there, and integrate those lost parts into yourself.
How does that land?
Like a lead brick in me underpants!
haha...Sorry, I'm just kidding!-Not really! :D
I just really had to say it.
Gone to my goofy place, this evening!
[Bet I shocked your Fe outright!] ;)
Yup, I think you're right. (There's the real answer.)
Hm... not sure how to go about finding or exploring the Shadow side of me. Upon thinking about this, what kind of activities would I have to do to promote my strength in my shadow side? or is that something else altogether at the moment? I'm eager to learn as much as I can about myself. And yes, I'm INFP as we established a week ago lol. Well.. any tidbits you're willing to offer will be appreciated.
Hiya Kevin! I wondered if that was you. ~wave~
For looking at the Shadow side in a structured way, I usually do a whole psychological types Self-Discovery session, and then I let some time lapse for that understanding to sink in. Then I offer two sessions on Beebe's model to get at this sort of information.
If you want to do some self-exploration, I would suggest "Your Golden Shadow" is a worthwhile book to read.
Personally, I wouldn't explore the Shadow until I felt the ego side of the personality was strong and confident. Shadow work of course dredges up the yucky stuff we don't like to look at in ourselves, so the work is compromised and can have a negative impact if the ego isn't able to withstand the exploration. It has the potential of causing more problems than it solves.
It's sort of equivalent to getting the living room in order and ready for company before rummaging around in the closets and cleaning out what's buried there. Does that follow?
No, that make perfect sense. Hm... I already know what happened to me in my past so I doubt that'll be an issue unless I've repressed the emotional aspect of it. Not sure what parts of myself I don't like to look at that could cause problems with me. But again, I won't see it Because its repressed. Perhaps you're right, my self confidence is abit lacking at this point of time because of the lack of trust in myself. Very well.. I'll work on that first to become friends with myself.
What are your unique gifts, Kevin? What changes when you come into the room? Hmmmm?
Hm... all I can say are what happens with my friends. My close friends pretty much say I'm their pillar of emotional strength, they also told me I have the tendency to relax my friends around me. Close or not. And that my wacky sense of humor tends to brighten their day. Or my oblivious to reality for that matter, but thats not really a strength. The biggest thing they have said is that they feel comfortable telling me almost anything since they never fear I'd judge them. Hm... I Have on occasions came up with an out of the planet idea that happens to work. But mostly.. they seem to compliment my calm, stable, gentle disposition.
Do you like these qualities in yourself? Do you like who you're being when friends say this kind of thing about you?
Well I'd like to be more useful to them since half the time they're dealing with a problem, I can't help them very well beyond what I already do and about a third of the time my advice is useful. As for liking myself for who I'm being, thats mixed. I always feel like I can do more, even if I'm not sure how I can do more. I try to accept their compliments in the spirit in which it is given, but I feel resistant to it. So I never really feel like I measure up to how I could be, despite my friends opposing views to that. Hm.. I'm talking in circles here, and thinking in circles as well. Well, I've already been attempting to change this for the better when I ask my friends the reasons for their compliments so that it might sink in more deeply. If I can look at myself more positively the way my friends do.. I'd feel alot better about myself... but it took my friends to point out how hard I am on myself to really notice it. Okay I kinda went on a storm writing this up but hopefully it answer your questions quickly lol.
The question was for you, actually, not me. I'm wondering if you know what you're naturally good at, and whether you can claim that without bringing up your shortcomings.
That's the difference between a confident person and an insecure person: the confident person is more aware of their strengths, and the insecure person is more aware of their shortcomings. They could be exactly the same person -- it's all about where they put their attention (consciousness).
So... let's take another shot at the question. What are your gifts, Kevin? Can you name them and claim them without reservation? (And if you don't know, how could you find out? ;-D)
I make companions of my dragons! I've never seen dragons as bad creatures - despite the term "slayer of dragons". My favourite dream involves a huge, all-white, grey-eyed dragon who speaks 'dragon' to me in a deep and musical voice. Somehow I understand him. For most of the dream we meet in a dark void but at the end of dream he was swimming beside me as I walked along the beach.
BTW - I'm pretty sure I'm INFJ (I rtend to direct rather than inform) but at times I do still wonder ...
I think it will be funny to suddenly see this on the MBTI. Next question: "Do you slay dragons or eat them for dinner?" WHAT? Actually I do see as an INFP that the dragon is perceived as the external object that may potentially be useful (Ne process), and Fi as the sifting system that takes it into the self. INFJs like task completion, so slaying one dragon at a time seems like "taking care of business" attitude in INFJs.
Interesting. As an INFP, I think of this perhaps as a facet of Fi, although it's hard to explain why - I'll try anyway. I think of one's demons not as something external to oneself, but as coming from within - so if I'm afraid, if I'm angry, if I'm depressed (same goes for positive emotions), the fear, the anger, the despair aren't things I can deny. If I try to deny them, all I'm doing is trying to cut myself off from my feelings.
Perhaps I could cut myself off from all my feelings, but why would I want that? I'd rather be depressed and have the possibility of feeling joy when that feeling comes, than be unable to feel either.
The solution, of course, is to "eat the dragon", gain mastery over it in a way that doesn't require me to deny everything it represents.
Another analogy that I like is that a dragon/demon here is like an infected body part. Slaying the dragon is like an amputation - sure, the infection is gone and gone quickly, but so is a part of me. I'd rather live with the infection for a while and nurse myself back to health. Maybe the infection is too far gone, maybe I'll never get back the same function, but at least it's still there and I can use it. If nothing else, it's a battle scar - I fought and maybe I didn't win, but I survived, and that counts for something.
I'm thinking here of Rilke: "if my demons leave me, my angels might take flight as well."
It's true that when I feel confident in my ability to do something, I don't think "I'm going to kill it", I think "I'm going to eat that for breakfast"!
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